Marriage

polydigm - 13-8-2008 at 02:28

I thought I'd start this discussion here because I haven't been coming here enough lately. I'm curious to hear why Bonny thinks marriage is a retarded institution. I've been married for over 16 years now and we are still very happy. I think whether it works or not has lot to do with starting with the right partner. My wife and I have always got on very well with each other, I couldn't see the point in it otherwise.

[Edited on 13/8/2008 by polydigm]

Jakeobs - 13-8-2008 at 03:20

I've been married for over 4 years and even though I don't ever want to be with anyone other than my wife as long as I live, I totally understand why Bonny has a negative view of marriage. My biggest issue with being married is having another entire family involuntarily in my life. Unless it's at work (i.e. I'm being PAID), the idea of having people in my life that I didn't choose to have in my life is completely abhorrent to me. Hell, having your blood-related family (ESPECIALLY extended family) involuntarily in your life is usually bad enough. Why make it worse for yourself by getting married? Thankfully, my wife agrees 100% with me on this, so we usually only see her extended family during the holidays and a birthday here and there.

Oh, almost forgot - having another person's co-workers involuntarily in your life sucks too. With very few exceptions, I can't fucking stand any of my wife's co-workers or their spouses.

[Edited on 13-8-2008 by Jakeobs]

BBP - 13-8-2008 at 10:13

First of all I should state that my view on marriage is caused by watching other people's marriages fail. Having split parents already puts a bomb under the idea, but watching aunts and friend's parents going the same way is painful, especially if there are kids who are always the ones who suffer the most.

In Netherlands, around 40% of last year's babies were born outside wedlock. Apparently this is both socially and economically possible for their parents. It is possible to sign a partnership contract and have the same advantages a married couple has. This makes a wedding expensive, and as a divorce always calls for lawsuits, and there is no financial gain, it seems that straight marriages are obsolete.

However I applaud gay marriage as an outing of equality.

scallopino - 13-8-2008 at 11:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Jakeobs
I've been married for over 4 years and even though I don't ever want to be with anyone other than my wife as long as I live, I totally understand why Bonny has a negative view of marriage. My biggest issue with being married is having another entire family involuntarily in my life. Unless it's at work (i.e. I'm being PAID), the idea of having people in my life that I didn't choose to have in my life is completely abhorrent to me. Hell, having your blood-related family (ESPECIALLY extended family) involuntarily in your life is usually bad enough. Why make it worse for yourself by getting married? Thankfully, my wife agrees 100% with me on this, so we usually only see her extended family during the holidays and a birthday here and there.

Oh, almost forgot - having another person's co-workers involuntarily in your life sucks too. With very few exceptions, I can't fucking stand any of my wife's co-workers or their spouses.

[Edited on 13-8-2008 by Jakeobs]

Thanks a very good point Jake. Does your wife's family like you though at least?

scallopino - 13-8-2008 at 12:40

Quote:

Originally posted by BBP
First of all I should state that my view on marriage is caused by watching other people's marriages fail. Having split parents already puts a bomb under the idea, but watching aunts and friend's parents going the same way is painful, especially if there are kids who are always the ones who suffer the most.

In Netherlands, around 40% of last year's babies were born outside wedlock. Apparently this is both socially and economically possible for their parents. It is possible to sign a partnership contract and have the same advantages a married couple has. This makes a wedding expensive, and as a divorce always calls for lawsuits, and there is no financial gain, it seems that straight marriages are obsolete.

However I applaud gay marriage as an outing of equality.

My parents have been married for 23 years or so. They have been miserable for the last 8 or so because my dad's sort of gone of the edge a little bit. He's an absolute asshole but completely dependent on my mother.

My sister and me have been suggesting they get a divorce for a long time but I think they are scared of a total change of lifestyle.

I agree with Bonny about gay marriage. Except that I don't know if that union should be called 'marriage', simply because marriage as a concept has too much outdated baggage. Maybe marriage itself is outdated.

But if both people make each other happy like in Poly's case then there really isn't anything wrong with marriage.

Jakeobs - 13-8-2008 at 12:57

Quote:

Originally posted by scallopino

Quote:

Thanks a very good point Jake. Does your wife's family like you though at least?

Her immediate family does.

Being as how I hardly see her extended family (and don't talk to 'em much when I do), I think they're pretty much indifferent to me for the most part.

BBP - 13-8-2008 at 18:46

I don't even know my extended family... aside from my grandmother, mother and her husband, dad and sis, I don't see any of the rest on regular base, and a lot of them never at all.

In Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa, Canada and Norway it's an actual marriage, just like with man and woman. In several other countries, like Britain, it's a civil union.

Scallop: my ex-beef put it in better words than I could: if two people love each other, why do they need to sign contract?

Jakeobs - 14-8-2008 at 02:50

I think the fact that my wife and I were a bit older when we got married (early 30s - I was almost 34, in fact) will definitely increase our chances of staying together "forever". Personally, I don't think people should get married until they're at least in their late 20s.

BBP - 14-8-2008 at 20:12

Hmmm... let's see... my mother was a month short of her 30th birthday when she married my father... didn't bring them much luck. But I think that good relationships come with wisdom, and wisdom comes with age.
Then again, there's a difference between a relationship and a marriage. While relationships can be beautiful, I don't see the point of marrying. There are other reasons for throwing a big party, and those won't have so many legal implications.

[Edited on 14-8-08 by BBP]

zombie1210 - 15-8-2008 at 00:44

Mine lasted 20 years.

3 days after my son's 18th birthday, she announces that she want a divorce so she can go out and FIND HERSELF.

Up until that day...not one single fight, and we humped like rabbits right up until the end.

So.......while it was good while it lasted, I'd say marriage is pretty much BULLSHIT. Especially the UNTIL DEATH DO US PART thing.

scallopino - 15-8-2008 at 07:34

Quote:

Originally posted by zombie1210
Mine lasted 20 years.

3 days after my son's 18th birthday, she announces that she want a divorce so she can go out and FIND HERSELF.

Up until that day...not one single fight, and we humped like rabbits right up until the end.

So.......while it was good while it lasted, I'd say marriage is pretty much BULLSHIT. Especially the UNTIL DEATH DO US PART thing.

"FIND HERSELF!" That exact line (except it was "FIND HIMSELF!") was in a recent modified production of the 'The Boyfriend' I did. I think in the show the couple was in a slightly longer relationship. Didn't she say anything until she said she wants a divorce?

polydigm - 16-8-2008 at 05:09

You can't avoid messy divorces by not having legal marriages. If two people work at a relationship over a significant period of time then their lives becomes entwined in many ways, economic and otherwise. If after some time the relationship breaks down, not having legal ties will not prevent the difficulty of unravelling their lives again. The institution of marriage itself does not cause the problems that occur when marriages break up.

polydigm - 16-8-2008 at 05:17

Oh yeah, that find himself/herself line is just bullshit. Two people living together who are genuinely compatible don't prevent each other from developing as individuals. If you're leaving to find yourself, you just haven't got the guts to be straight and say what you really feel, that you just plain don't want to be with the other person.

zombie1210 - 16-8-2008 at 05:43

Quote:

Originally posted by polydigm
Oh yeah, that find himself/herself line is just bullshit. Two people living together who are genuinely compatible don't prevent each other from developing as individuals. If you're leaving to find yourself, you just haven't got the guts to be straight and say what you really feel, that you just plain don't want to be with the other person.

I figured it was the cowards way out.

scallopino - 16-8-2008 at 05:45

A good point and well made.

polydigm - 16-8-2008 at 23:43

Quote:

Originally posted by scallopino: A good point and well made.

Which one?

BBP - 17-8-2008 at 11:27

Quote:

Originally posted by polydigm
You can't avoid messy divorces by not having legal marriages. If two people work at a relationship over a significant period of time then their lives becomes entwined in many ways, economic and otherwise. If after some time the relationship breaks down, not having legal ties will not prevent the difficulty of unravelling their lives again. The institution of marriage itself does not cause the problems that occur when marriages break up.

It will! Depending on how much money you have, who your lawyers are etc. Some divorces keep on stretching over years of lawsuits, eating money and causing much stress.

scallopino - 17-8-2008 at 12:10

The one that Bonny just rebutted. I wrote it and then forgot to post it for a few hours.

BBP - 17-8-2008 at 20:39

:puzzled: What do you mean? Anything I can do?

polydigm - 17-8-2008 at 23:10

Quote:

Originally posted by BBP

Quote:

It will! Depending on how much money you have, who your lawyers are etc. Some divorces keep on stretching over years of lawsuits, eating money and causing much stress.

My point is that if two people form a relationship over a long period of time, especially one including children, firstly they may play different roles: one working the other minding the children, secondly they have shared property: the home, the car, etc, and if you do that without getting married and then later on split up it still has to be sorted out and if there is acrimony then the law will still get involved. Defacto marriages are recognised in law in Australia for just that reason.

[Edited on 17/8/2008 by polydigm]

scallopino - 18-8-2008 at 01:16

Quote:

Originally posted by BBP
:puzzled: What do you mean? Anything I can do?

What do YOU mean? :cool:

BBP - 18-8-2008 at 08:13

Didn't understand what you were saying. And it sounded like you had problems with the Forum, and if you have, I need to solve them.

scallopino - 18-8-2008 at 12:44

Poly's point was something like a serious relationship involves an intertwining of two lives which makes it difficult to untwine whether you're married or not. You rebutted that point, which means you argued against its validity.

You don't have to do anything with the forum because all I did was write my post in the box and then forgot to hit 'Post Reply' for a few hours and by then some other people had posted.

You're innocent either way.

BBP - 18-8-2008 at 14:54

:bald: Aw thanks.

Don't ya hate it when that happens? I'm not sure if you time out here, though I can't think of that happening with this convenient Quick Reply option.

polydigm - 18-8-2008 at 23:08

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ... :rolleyes:

Spacebrother - 11-9-2008 at 06:01

Quote:

Originally posted by polydigm
Meanwhile, back at the ranch ... :rolleyes:

Marriage may not work for everybody and it's understandable that people might have a negative view of it given life experience, but for all the people I know who's marriage did'nt work out, there are many who it works out well for.

I've never married. Was close to it once not that long ago but the relationship dissolved because I did'nt pop the question after a nearly 9 year relationship.

scallopino - 11-9-2008 at 11:15

Did you want to get married?

BBP - 11-9-2008 at 17:07

Gosh... sorry to hear that Spacey...

Huck_Phlem - 4-11-2008 at 19:09

My wife left yesterday and took all her things. She has been cheating on me for years which actually doesn't bother me as long as my kids don't know about it. She needs someone that cares about her because I stopped years ago since she is so abusive verbally to us and constantly stealing money to gamble with.

I have the kids and life is about to get really really hard but being with my kids is so much fun! They are both very creative. Connor is the guitar player as some of you know but my daughter is very artistic and dangerously good looking. (Half Asian half Irish)

BBP - 4-11-2008 at 21:41

Oh dear... poor Huck... sounds like she had terrible problems...

scallopino - 5-11-2008 at 01:36

I'm sorry to hear it Huck but at least the relationship produced some great offspring.

Huck_Phlem - 13-11-2008 at 02:37

Awww thanks.

I really love my kids. It's what makes me live life to it's fullest. My daughter (11 years old) is making dinner while my Son (13 years) is learning how to play "So What" by Miles Davis on the guitar. His jazz band just got the music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeOmrN34tm0

scallopino - 13-11-2008 at 02:49

Cool (literally). What do your kids think of the whole marriage situation?

Huck_Phlem - 16-11-2008 at 21:21

My Son wants it to end but I think Brigid wants us to work it out. If she took some medication and and went to counseling with us I'd be willing to work it out. She obviously wants to be able to do what ever she wants so she is free to go I guess. I don't hang out with anyone else but my kids so it makes sense for me to have custody.