An ungrateful stupid jackdaw stuck in the chimney. Sounds like someone else I know called Cleon.

Here he is, anyway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6YYXCeoHnk

They get 13 to 15 inch in length and can be very noisy, but this one didn't make much noise and flew and pooped around all over the place, until he'd settled in by the window and tried to get out. They're clever animals, normally.

[Edited on 22-7-12 by BBP]

Again, more parallels with Cleon, as humans are also clever animals normally.

You know he drinks... had him on ignore for some time now.

I can't help feeling sorry for the guy. I've just had another go at communicating with him but he's just too ridiculous.

This is not a criticism of you or anyone. I think we see things similarly in that we ask questions to find out what's going on, hoping we can come to conclusions that may lead to a way out. But I've done a bunch of study on authoritarian social models and the consequences on those who would be in the group. Every system is different, people are different and more complex than mere models can show. But there are patterns.

You know 'Lead, Follow, or Get out of the way'? It seems like these are the only choices some people think they have when interacting with others, anywhere.
'Following is for pussies', getting out of the way is for "old folks, women and kids" ('if they don't do as they're told') and 'leading' is all that's left. By hook or by crook.
To lead, you have to be in front. To get in front, you have to scrap and fight one's way there - or that's all some see in 'leadership': a successful bully.

Of course, it isn't so simple. There are lots of ways to interact or not. As a teacher you know that often the best way to get people to see stuff or even just learn is by suggestion. If people feel they are being talked down to, then they won't want it. Whatever it is. But if they are shown the pieces and ideas on how to put them together and let them figure it out so it seems they got it by themselves - so they can feel proud of their 'work' - then they start to feel good about the process and may want to do more.

Once, when we had a politi-spammer, Diesel or somebody and they had an avatar of a bouncing bust - 'chrissy' maybe - cleon went and found a longer clip of that and presented it as evidence that this person wasn't who they said they were. I praised cleon, telling him he was doing the work of research like a journalist. It was a surprise and a ridiculous quip but he took it at face value and went thinking he'd done a good turn. He never bothered me again. This after talking with a group in chat once and cleon acting like he was gonna reach thru the internet and punch me in the face. Maybe it's a show, maybe he's lazy with punctuation or writin', doesn't care if spelling is near the mark, expects to be listened to and will fight any who questions or disagrees with him...
when an authority asks us questions, it's natural to turn defensive: "Do you know how fast you were driving? Do you have your license and registration? Does your mother know you masturbate?' To many, it's all a 'GOTCHA' when posed as a question - because that is their experience - and the natural and correct response, is huff and puff and bluster or submit and mostly, to not get 'got'.

I tried to get BS and some others to explain how they got to the conclusions they were spouting. They couldn't do it but got defensive with all my questions, said I was trying to mess with their head. I just wanted to show them what they were saying didn't make sense and wasn't winning any converts. But bravo doesn't care, doesn't look at consequences, only who comes out on top, this round. A fight is exciting, gets the blood going, plus it's easy. Thinking is hard. When I learned BS was a prison guard, it all made sense. His job is to stay on top, keep a lid on things, 'keep the devil in the hole'. Sense or logic or consequences don't matter so long as he feels he's on top at the end. No reason to reflect on a better way, you take your orders, you stay in line and get the riffraff out of the way. Lead, Follow or Get out of the way.
For this authoritarian model, human communication or interaction is permitted, so long as it doesn't get in the way of whatever the boss says has got to be done.... but according to this 'model of behavior', people get questioned when they are in trouble which puts those questioned on a lower rung of the totem pole.

I know this isn't why you were asking him questions, but some people don't know (or aren't willing to recognize) there's another sense behind 'that line of attack'. Just because we aren't attacking doesn't mean that's not how it's received. Because if they don't know the answer, they're afraid they will be taken down a rung, again. You know, 'The best defense is a good offense'? Some people just think it's always a conflict.
I feel more sorry for his wife and kids. But I don't know anything about that.

[Edited on 22-7-12 by punknaynowned]

The cleon dynamic... What you mean you don know what.I right you Dumb so? His use of smilies is ironic.

Makes sense to me.That's more than I can say for cleon sometimes.I try and agree with him to avoid this kind of negative responce from him.But the one thing he does when you think you're good with him is find something your wrong about.It doesn't even have to be directed at him.He will find something and start the "you don't know shit" stuff.So I would assume after reading your post that he also has a pecking order in his own "liked" sub group.Does that make sense? Does everyone know what I'm getting at? It would seem that that type of behavior has levels within levels of...hmm,what do you call it? I do notice that JP and him talk to each other the same way,but after you read a couple of they're squabbles back and forth it seem like that's they're normal dynamic.In other words thats how they always talk to each other.That leads me to think both of them think acting and talking this way makes you one of the kings on the hill.That kind of thing.
Thank's punknayowned,it's a good thing to remember when his attacks seem to come from nowhere and keep coming until you give-up and he thinks he's won something.Now it all makes sense.Cool.

I'm not particularly troubled by Cleon - no more than I might be by certain aspects of life in general - it's not hanging me up or anything. I just thought I'd have another go at communicating with him. Babong!!!

I posted something normal a couple of years ago, info on something, and he replied with something like "F you, you SOB" and I've had him on ignore since.

I said: "I thought Bobby Martin made it big scoring movies or TV shows" as part of a discussion.It was more of a question than me stating a fact.I got the same guff outta nowhere from him.I tryed to be cute and said maybe it was Bobby Harris.Bad idea! I'm a stoopid dumb c.... well you guys know the rest,was his reply.So if he's not bothering me I take him off Ignore.Every once in awhile he finds some cool links.If he gets nasty,he goes back on Ignore.Nice little feature!

I just ignore him, if enough people do that he'll go away.

or make him as angry as possible. Then he maybe makes a post that administrators ban him forever. I prefer that, but I must admit it sometimes happens without my intention.

It's all quiet on the Cleon front at the moment. He didn't answer my last post which was me saying "I give in". He usually answers everything with something or other so maybe his internet connection is down.

Well DED, let's not get started on the work of the "admins" on the Zappa forum...

Ha! Work and the Zappa.com administrators in the same sentence,what are you thinking? No one *works* there,they *Watch the sky's!* when it's convenient for them.

From my experience Poly,your good with cleon for awhile.You lost - he won,takes the wind out of his sails.He might,in his weird cleon way,try and be nice to you.Extend an olive branch to ya.Just to break it over your head when you least expect it!
I agree with Bonny,if he makes you mad *ignore* him.That's about the best feature they have come up with on Zappa.com since I've been there and they lost the chat room just before that.It was cool when someone was on at the same time.They need more people around the world to join.Now the vetting of future forum members is getting tiresome for the newbies.I try and assage their worries like a few other forum members here do,then I think I'm leading them to cleon with a chance of Trendy or Isaacc too.Frank makes it all worth it.I just found out some new things about his art and music I never knew before.Fascinating man,awesome stuff!
Frank's the Best!

Oh they still have the chatroom don't they? They removed the link but not the software.

I can't find anyway into the chatroom without going to my favs. Then click on the link in a thread Mr.GG found.BTW I just posted there.I see you were on BBP,2 hours before me.Sorry I missed you.How do you get into chat?

I'll catch you on the flip side.I just noticed it's 3:00AM and way past my bedtime.Good night all. {-

Quote: Originally posted by BBP

Oh they still have the chatroom don't they? They removed the link but not the software.

we still have the link and the software. But if it stills works?
Never found anyone in there.

Quote: Originally posted by DED

Quote: Originally posted by BBP   Oh they still have the chatroom don't they? They removed the link but not the software. we still have the link and the software. But if it stills works? Never found anyone in there.

There's never anyone on there the last year.Before I'd be talking to Aspy,Mr. GG,BBP,Poly,Dovey,Bat and the list goes on.Not alot at once,just 2 or 3 of us on.It was much more personable that way.They just need an easier link and let us know where it is.

What I Did Yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTp6sNBl85c