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aquagoat
King Kong Status
Posts: 2170
Registered: 15-3-2006
Location: France
Member Is Offline
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Give me Charles Bronson or Jack Palance any day
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I feel very insulted by this statement, don't you these men are not objects for your fantasies, they've got a brain, not just a body, it's very
insulting to men, like when somebody posts pictures of a naked or half naked Dweezil Zappa somewhere on the Zappa forum.
What do you do when you listen to one of Frank's records and there are songs about sex, floss ? Do you call Gail or Ryko discs to ask them to hide
these songs behind a link ?
Now here's my solution: if you don't want to see these pictures of naked women/men, don't watch those threads, it's as simple as that. I'm tired of
sterile pseudo political debates where everybody insults one another,so I don't read them anymore, I don't ask them to stop talking about politics,
why don't you do the same with the sex threads ?
And please, don't tell me the Zappa forum is overflowing with porn,cause that would be a lie. Right now there are perhaps 4 or 5 posts about that out
of a total of 212747 articles. Censoring those threads is like cutting out parts of the lyrics of "Let's make the water turn black" or "Bobby brown
goes down". It would be in total contradiction to the spirit of Zappa's work and fight for freedom of speech, but who gives a fuck, apparently not
you.
[Edited on 5-4-2006 by aquabot]
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floss
Freak Out! Status
Posts: 16
Registered: 24-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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"I refuse to take seriously anyone who is drawn to something they only find "offensive"
--Batchain
You refuse to take MY thoughts on a subject seriously? Because they don't fall in with YOUR thoughts on the subject?
Mine don't count then? Well there's no point in discussing anything with you any further if YOUR opinion is the only true and good one. You arrogant
prick!
"I feel very insulted by this statement, don't you these men are not objects for your fantasies, they've got a brain, not just a body, it's very
insulting to men, like when somebody posts pictures of a naked or half naked Dweezil Zappa somewhere on the Zappa forum."
--Aquabot
Yes - very funny Aquabot - but Dweezil wasn't shoving an erection in anyone's face was he? Was he even showing anything
that wouldn't be seen walking down a street in the summer? That's not the same thing and you know it! When was the last time YOU saw a naked man
with an erection on a magazine or newspaper cover in a local village shop? I've never seen one on the Zappa forum. Actually I've NEVER seen one
OTHER than a partner's in all my 49 years! Did they act out the scene in Dirty Harry when a man with an erection chased a girl down the street "with
intent to rape"? No, because it wouldn't have been allowed. It's not the same and YOU know it.
"What do you do when you listen to one of Frank's records and there are songs about sex, floss ? Do you call Gail or Ryko discs to ask them to hide
these songs behind a link ?"
--Aquabot
A song or the written word is not the same. It unfolds over several minutes, or in a book over many hours' reading. If
you don't like what you're hearing or reading you don't have to carry on. The picture is instant. You can't just see SOME of it. And, as I said, I
DID avoid certain threads but they could NOT be avoided when scrolling through last posts when sometimes the same picture would be repeated several
times as no-one's comment on the original was complete without a re-run of the picture! I have no problem at all with FZ lyrics. I tend to prefer
instrumentals (and not ONLY FZ's) but that is nothing to do with the sex content of SOME of the songs. That's to do with the fact that instrumentals
don't date. After you've heard the lyrics thousands of times they're not NEW anymore. You know the story or the politicians have come and gone
already. It's a very rare person who watches the same MOVIE thousands of times over. (Faye Dunaway looks, frankly, ridiculous in The Thomas Crown
Affair.) It doesn't work like that with the instrumentals. I can't explain why it's different but it is. Of course I still listen to ALL the songs
as the music is all good but the lyrical content is, after thousands of listens, not fresh and exciting and the music somehow still IS.
"Now here's my solution: if you don't want to see these pictures of naked women/men, don't watch those threads, it's as simple as that. I'm tired of
sterile pseudo political debates where everybody insults one another,so I don't read them anymore, I don't ask them to stop talking about politics,
why don't you do the same with the sex threads ?"
Aquabot
Again, the written word is not the same as the pictures - they're instant.
"And please, don't tell me the Zappa forum is overflowing with porn,cause that would be a lie. Right now there are perhaps 4 or 5 posts about that out
of a total of 212747 articles. Censoring those threads is like cutting out parts of the lyrics of "Let's make the water turn black" or "Bobby brown
goes down". It would be in total contradiction to the spirit of Zappa's work and fight for freedom of speech, but who gives a fuck, apparently not
you."
--Aquabot
The Zappa forum is not overflowing with porn but who has time to read all the old threads going back several years? The
only ones I saw were recent ones or recently reactivated ones and the best way to catch up, as you will know being in France, is to do a search for "
" last day and 200 or so posts in order to miss the fewest postings. Last 10 posts was actually a misnomer and hopelessly inadequate anyway, and
being in Europe lots of new posts could be missed from the US posters overnight meaning time taken to go into each category and sub-thread to catch
up. It was another forumer who gave me the tip to do that. It wouldn't have hurt to put the pictures behind a link - you would all still get your
jollies and give up nothing at all. Is that SO much to ask?
"I agree with every point you have made Floss. The comparison with passive smoking is a good one. People bang on about freedom but it's not that
simple. My actions in the world will affect other people, so my freedom is a compromise against the freedom of others and vice versa."
--Polydigm
Thank you very much. I really appreciate that post.
Now ...
I'm done with this. I came over here because the Zappa forum was spoiled for me. Now you're doing it with this one.
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yoko
200 Motels Status
Posts: 64
Registered: 7-10-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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roll the popcorn 
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Batchain
Apostrophe Status
Posts: 128
Registered: 2-4-2006
Location: Boston,MA (Over your head and under your legs!)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Better than absolutely shitty.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by floss
"I refuse to take seriously anyone who is drawn to something they only find "offensive"
--Batchain
You refuse to take MY thoughts on a subject seriously? Because they don't fall in with YOUR thoughts on the subject?
Mine don't count then? Well there's no point in discussing anything with you any further if YOUR opinion is the only true and good one. You arrogant
prick!
"I feel very insulted by this statement, don't you these men are not objects for your fantasies, they've got a brain, not just a body, it's very
insulting to men, like when somebody posts pictures of a naked or half naked Dweezil Zappa somewhere on the Zappa forum."
--Aquabot
Yes - very funny Aquabot - but Dweezil wasn't shoving an erection in anyone's face was he? Was he even showing anything
that wouldn't be seen walking down a street in the summer? That's not the same thing and you know it! When was the last time YOU saw a naked man
with an erection on a magazine or newspaper cover in a local village shop? I've never seen one on the Zappa forum. Actually I've NEVER seen one
OTHER than a partner's in all my 49 years! Did they act out the scene in Dirty Harry when a man with an erection chased a girl down the street "with
intent to rape"? No, because it wouldn't have been allowed. It's not the same and YOU know it.
"What do you do when you listen to one of Frank's records and there are songs about sex, floss ? Do you call Gail or Ryko discs to ask them to hide
these songs behind a link ?"
--Aquabot
A song or the written word is not the same. It unfolds over several minutes, or in a book over many hours' reading. If
you don't like what you're hearing or reading you don't have to carry on. The picture is instant. You can't just see SOME of it. And, as I said, I
DID avoid certain threads but they could NOT be avoided when scrolling through last posts when sometimes the same picture would be repeated several
times as no-one's comment on the original was complete without a re-run of the picture! I have no problem at all with FZ lyrics. I tend to prefer
instrumentals (and not ONLY FZ's) but that is nothing to do with the sex content of SOME of the songs. That's to do with the fact that instrumentals
don't date. After you've heard the lyrics thousands of times they're not NEW anymore. You know the story or the politicians have come and gone
already. It's a very rare person who watches the same MOVIE thousands of times over. (Faye Dunaway looks, frankly, ridiculous in The Thomas Crown
Affair.) It doesn't work like that with the instrumentals. I can't explain why it's different but it is. Of course I still listen to ALL the songs
as the music is all good but the lyrical content is, after thousands of listens, not fresh and exciting and the music somehow still IS.
"Now here's my solution: if you don't want to see these pictures of naked women/men, don't watch those threads, it's as simple as that. I'm tired of
sterile pseudo political debates where everybody insults one another,so I don't read them anymore, I don't ask them to stop talking about politics,
why don't you do the same with the sex threads ?"
Aquabot
Again, the written word is not the same as the pictures - they're instant.
"And please, don't tell me the Zappa forum is overflowing with porn,cause that would be a lie. Right now there are perhaps 4 or 5 posts about that out
of a total of 212747 articles. Censoring those threads is like cutting out parts of the lyrics of "Let's make the water turn black" or "Bobby brown
goes down". It would be in total contradiction to the spirit of Zappa's work and fight for freedom of speech, but who gives a fuck, apparently not
you."
--Aquabot
The Zappa forum is not overflowing with porn but who has time to read all the old threads going back several years? The
only ones I saw were recent ones or recently reactivated ones and the best way to catch up, as you will know being in France, is to do a search for "
" last day and 200 or so posts in order to miss the fewest postings. Last 10 posts was actually a misnomer and hopelessly inadequate anyway, and
being in Europe lots of new posts could be missed from the US posters overnight meaning time taken to go into each category and sub-thread to catch
up. It was another forumer who gave me the tip to do that. It wouldn't have hurt to put the pictures behind a link - you would all still get your
jollies and give up nothing at all. Is that SO much to ask?
"I agree with every point you have made Floss. The comparison with passive smoking is a good one. People bang on about freedom but it's not that
simple. My actions in the world will affect other people, so my freedom is a compromise against the freedom of others and vice versa."
--Polydigm
Thank you very much. I really appreciate that post.
Now ...
I'm done with this. I came over here because the Zappa forum was spoiled for me. Now you're doing it with this one. |
Laughing my fucking ass off!!!
floss:"You refuse to take MY thoughts on a subject seriously? Because they don't fall in with YOUR
thoughts on the subject? Mine don't count then? Well there's no point in discussing anything with you any further if YOUR opinion is the only true
and good one. You arrogant prick!"
My plea: Guilty! I am truly an arrogant prick for never having relied on you to know all the right things to think and correct
things to believe. Oh, what a hopelessly ignorant fool I've been for so many years. I've actually believed all that shit I've thought without
your approval! Well, still kinda sad too, isn't it?
And Poly's right too, y'know! Take it from the from the Greatest Philostopher who ever lived (Second only to Quentin Robert Denameland.) Immanual
Kant: "Act as if your every thought and your every deed were the the creation of a universal moral law." (Critique if Pure Reason.)
--Batchain :
 Photographic ArtWerk courtesy of Debutante Daisy sometimes known as Guacamole Queen. |
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polydigm
King Kong Status
Posts: 2173
Registered: 1-4-2006
Location: Horse Tray Ya
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inspired
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Batchain: And Poly's right too, y'know! Take it from the from the Greatest Philostopher who ever lived (Second only to
Quentin Robert Denameland.) Immanual Kant: "Act as if your every thought and your every deed were the the creation of a universal moral law."
(Critique if Pure Reason.) |
So where did you go wrong? 
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Batchain
Apostrophe Status
Posts: 128
Registered: 2-4-2006
Location: Boston,MA (Over your head and under your legs!)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Better than absolutely shitty.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by polydigm
| Quote: | | Originally posted by Batchain: And Poly's right too, y'know! Take it from the from the Greatest Philostopher who ever lived (Second only to
Quentin Robert Denameland.) Immanual Kant: "Act as if your every thought and your every deed were the the creation of a universal moral law."
(Critique of Pure Reason.) |
So where did you go wrong? |
Oh! If only I'd known when and where I could've corrected my errant ways!
--Bat
Photographic ArtWerk courtesy of Debutante Daisy sometimes known as Guacamole Queen. |
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BBP
Super Administrator
Posts: 8058
Registered: 3-10-2005
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cheerful yet relaxed
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Dear Floss,
Being a lady, I, too, can feel slight distress upon seeing certain pornographic images. However, I decided to allow such pictures on this forum. Some
people seem to need 'em.
I think it is desirable that if you want to use such pictures, please announce it clearly, so that people at work and the prudish people can dodge
them and prevent any harm they may cause. So don't use them as your avatar.
Methinks I need to update the rules...
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yoko
200 Motels Status
Posts: 64
Registered: 7-10-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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so i can't take off my sweater in here?
(image not allowed,sorry)
[Edited on 7-4-2006 by yoko]
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aquagoat
King Kong Status
Posts: 2170
Registered: 15-3-2006
Location: France
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BBP
Dear Floss,
Being a lady, I, too, can feel slight distress upon seeing certain pornographic images. However, I decided to allow such pictures on this forum. Some
people seem to need 'em.
I think it is desirable that if you want to use such pictures, please announce it clearly, so that people at work and the prudish people can dodge
them and prevent any harm they may cause. So don't use them as your avatar.
Methinks I need to update the rules... |
You know, I wouldn't mind if you didn't want sex pictures to be posted here Bonny, cause it's your site, but the official Zappa site cannot promote
any form of censorship since as I've already said, it would be contrary to the state of mind of the man who wrote "The MOI anti-smut loyalty oath" or
the sticker on "The mothers of prevention" and so many songs about sex acts "worse" than a few pictures of naked people.
[Edited on 7-4-2006 by aquabot]
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floss
Freak Out! Status
Posts: 16
Registered: 24-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I'd just like to make it clear that I didn't ASK that the porn be banned from Bonny's or the Zappa forum. I only made a request in a separate thread
on the Zappa forum that the pics be put behind a link.
I think it's sad that people find it necessary to share these pics on an open forum, where some of your kids might also see them, rather than just
keep their porn surfing to themselves, but I never asked for it to be banned - just not displayed without an extra click of the mouse. I simply said
I came here because I was fed up with it on the Zappa site. Other people made an argument out of it.
Now that the Zappa forum has turned to shite I expect a lot more people will sign up here and it will eventually go the same way.
Everything else re pictures -v- words I've already said and am not about to repeat.
Bonny I'm really happy for you - your site will no doubt be a great success.
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DED
Administrator
Posts: 1139
Registered: 16-3-2006
Location: NL
Member Is Offline
Mood: a happy upgrader feeling
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I'm not a moderator, only the father of Bonny and I can say I was really shocked when I saw the American response on the Jackson girl act in the
footballstadium. Woman MUST realise that their lifes are very positively developed in the last 35 years. We have an ecyclopedia for housewives (dated
somewhere in the fifties) here, and I know for sure that you are very glad that you do not live in those years.
The sexual revolution has obtained a lot of goodness you must not forget. Life of a woman today is so much better then before and that is not only
obtained by women only, men deserves a lot of credits in it.
The thing however we must realise that, although most pictures are made with full approval of female models, still pictures are made with females that
are illegally in a country and they are forced to pose in extreme situations like sex with animals. We also must not forget that the economical
situation in some countries are so worse that the only way to survive is to explore your young children in the sexindustry. If you are willing to
tell that to your children, instead of keeping their eyes shut in some occassions than we may be able to end all the misery around this theme.
[Edited on 7-4-2006 by DED]
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yoko
200 Motels Status
Posts: 64
Registered: 7-10-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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so, can i use this avatar, or it's offending?
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Batchain
Apostrophe Status
Posts: 128
Registered: 2-4-2006
Location: Boston,MA (Over your head and under your legs!)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Better than absolutely shitty.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by aquabot
| Quote: | Originally posted by BBP
Dear Floss,
Being a lady, I, too, can feel slight distress upon seeing certain pornographic images. However, I decided to allow such pictures on this forum. Some
people seem to need 'em.
I think it is desirable that if you want to use such pictures, please announce it clearly, so that people at work and the prudish people can dodge
them and prevent any harm they may cause. So don't use them as your avatar.
Methinks I need to update the rules... |
You know, I wouldn't mind if you didn't want sex pictures to be posted here Bonny, cause it's your site, but the official Zappa site cannot promote
any form of censorship since as I've already said, it would be contrary to the state of mind of the man who wrote "The MOI anti-smut loyalty oath" or
the sticker on "The mothers of prevention" and so many songs about sex acts "worse" than a few pictures of naked people.
[Edited on 7-4-2006 by aquabot] |
Agreed, aquabot. Bonny's site is a totally separate entity and she's
well within her rights to run it as she sees fit, with or without restrictions. "floss" has every right to ask that something be
changed and restrictions imposed at either site and hope she can get what she wants. Fine!
The absurdity was that she was offended that I didn't accord her views the same validity that I did my own. Of course not! If I regarded them
to be of equal value I wouldn't believe my own beliefs which would be logically self-negating and I couldn't possibly have any to
begin with!
--Batchain
Photographic ArtWerk courtesy of Debutante Daisy sometimes known as Guacamole Queen. |
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BBP
Super Administrator
Posts: 8058
Registered: 3-10-2005
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cheerful yet relaxed
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Oh that's OK, so is taking your shirt off  .
For the matter of kids, I'm sure that pics of nude women will not harm them AT ALL. If you want to hide stuff like that from them, fine. But I don't
think I should assist anyone in that task by robbing other people of their freedom.
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Pappawas1975
Frank Zappa Status
Posts: 1052
Registered: 3-10-2005
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Is it just me or is porn fucking great?....I say more porn, EVERYWHERE....get off your high horses, get your hands outta your pockets and turn on your
love light.....Jeezzz.....
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aquagoat
King Kong Status
Posts: 2170
Registered: 15-3-2006
Location: France
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by yoko
so, can i use this avatar, or it's offending? |
That avatar's cool yoko.
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Pappawas1975
Frank Zappa Status
Posts: 1052
Registered: 3-10-2005
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Family Guy rules....
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aquagoat
King Kong Status
Posts: 2170
Registered: 15-3-2006
Location: France
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BBP
Oh that's OK, so is taking your shirt off .
For the matter of kids, I'm sure that pics of nude women will not harm them AT ALL. If you want to hide stuff like that from them, fine. But I don't
think I should assist anyone in that task by robbing other people of their freedom. |
I agree with some of that. I was exposed to porn when I was five (I found 1 of my dad's books one day) and I'm pretty normal except for the  and the  .I watched that several time and one day I got caught by my mother. The thing is that my parents didn't make a big deal of that and explained what
it was to me, then I went back to my playmobils. It didn't turn me into a pervert and it didn't make me consider women as whores or objects.
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aquagoat
King Kong Status
Posts: 2170
Registered: 15-3-2006
Location: France
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gojira1975
Is it just me or is porn fucking great?....I say more porn, EVERYWHERE.... |
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floss
Freak Out! Status
Posts: 16
Registered: 24-3-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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"floss" has every right to ask that something be changed and restrictions imposed at either site and hope she can get
what she wants. Fine!
I didn't ask for restrictions to be imposed. I did say, Have a heart guys - couldn't you post the naked pics behind a link? That's not the same.
The absurdity was that she was offended that I didn't accord her views the same validity that I did my own. Of course
not! If I regarded them to be of equal value I wouldn't believe my own beliefs which would be logically self-negating and I couldn't possibly have any
to begin with!
--Batchain
I was not offended that you didn't accord my views the same validity that you did your own. You did not, however, give them ANY VALIDITY AT ALL! You
refused to take me seriously - which seems to me that you thought I must be joking. What that is is dismissive, rude and arrogant.
To aquabot: perhaps you were lucky being caught and talked to about it. Other kids might be upset, especially girls, to find something like that and
might be adversely affected by it. My schoolfriend and I found a whole cupboard full of mags in her house we presumed belonged to her father, and I
was always creeped out by him after that and scared when he used to take me home in his car after I visited. I never told a soul.
The forum is worldwide. What offends in some countries doesn't, for instance, in the Netherlands. How some people choose to educate children is not
how others do. Therefore people grow up with different exposures to, and also different attitudes to porn and its display. All I can say is Vive la
difference.
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